Navigating Major Programmes

JENIA: There is other companies that uh, offer different solutions that are AI focused and geared towards the utility sector. I do see some utilities, uh, adopting it, some utilities are not. I think it's a little early days for AI in the utility sector, but I think it will improve and I think that there will be more of it happening in the sector with time.
EVGENIA: You're listening to Navigating Major Programs, home to the conversations elevating the infrastructure industry. I'm Evgenia Jilina
SHORMILA: I'm Shormila Chatterjee.
RICCARDO: I'm Riccardo Cosentino. And together we press the industry expert about the complexity of program management, emerging digital trends, and the critical leadership skills required to approach these multi billion dollar projects.
SHORMILA: Let's see where the convers takes us.
EVGENIA: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Navigating Major Programs. Today it's myself, Evgenia and I'm joined by Shormila. How are you doing, Shormila?
SHORMILA: I'm doing so well, Evgenia. How are you?
EVGENIA: I'm well, thank you. And I'm excited to welcome our guests today. Someone who spent majority of her career, um, in the energy sector, both delivery side of things and then also more recently leadership and strategy. Jenia Reynolds. Welcome to Navigating Major Programs.
JENIA: Thank you for having me. Hello everybody.
EVGENIA: Hello. How are you doing today?
JENIA: I'm good, thank you.
EVGENIA: That's good to hear. Well, we're excited to have you. We're excited to uh, learn a little bit about your journey in major programs. Energy sectors is booming and it's never going away. There are trends, we see ups and downs in other sectors, but energy is growing, um, and standing strong. And maybe before we dive into all things projects and programs and energy, um, tell us a little bit about yourself, what brought you here and uh, what's your background for sure.
JENIA: My name is Jenia Reynolds and currently I work in power supply and corporate development as a partnership development manager. I started with BC Hydro quite a long time ago, somewhere around 2009 I think. So it's almost in my second decade. I started off in what was then called BC Transmission Corporation and they're working on major transmission projects, um, that were being delivered at the time, then moved into the customer sector, uh, focusing on industrial sector and doing energy stadium projects, kind of like power smart for the industrial sector. And then more recently moved into business development where we helped new industrial customers connect into our grid. And then this partnership role is actually kind of new new. And we're uh, looking for ways to help partnerships help scale our business.
EVGENIA: Very interesting. Maybe we can Shift gears here and talk a little bit about your kind of transition from project delivery to I believe you've done some business development and now partnerships. Walk us through kind of the difference and that career progression and what made you want to get involved in the spectrum of uh, different elements.
JENIA: Yeah, so when I started I started in transmission project management, so building transmission lines and substation projects. And I did that for quite a while. And then I had one project that was an IPP and it involved working with the customer. Traditionally we um, you know built, when you build in transmission substation projects so you're the customer yourself. But in this instance it was a customer uh, project and I really, really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed working with the customers and uh, I wanted to kind of get more experience in that. And so I applied to our, what we now call kind of customer and key account sector and that's where I did energy efficiency for industrials. And I just really enjoyed working with the outside uh, of the organization, um, learning different I guess circumstances that businesses can have, why they're looking for energy efficiency, learning about their business. And that's really, I just really enjoyed working with people outside. And then naturally um, uh, opportunity opened up in the business development sector and I immediately applied because then that was working with, to be customers of BC Hydro and uh, it seemed really uh, exciting at the time.
EVGENIA: That's really interesting. One thing I want to clarify. Ipp, what does that stand for?
JENIA: Independent Power Producer. It was a wind farm. Yes.
EVGENIA: The definition of customers and partners. So give us just some, not specifics, not specific organizations but like the different types of customers that you work would then um, look to partner or would come to you for services. Like when you say customer service, who is your customer in this sense?
JENIA: So in business development sense we focused on industrial customers. At the time it was anybody above a certain threshold, usually transmission level customers. So I'd say 13 to 15 megawatts of energy demand and above. Uh, at the time uh, there was a lot of hydrogen projects that were happening, uh, crypto projects that were happening. We're now seeing that move into data centers and uh, LNG mining is very strong due to high commodities markets. So those are the kind of customers that would, that are not yet customers that need help connecting. Um, our group would kind of be the concierge if you will of uh, that uh, particular sector and we would help them with their interconnection process.
SHORMILA: That's interesting because I guess I never assumed that they, you would need business development because everybody needs energy and so it's interesting that it's, it's not, I guess again, depending on your, your frame of reference, business development is a chase, right? Like there's kind of a, there's a proactivity and, but it sounds like for you it's more the experience of the, you know, that it's, you're trying to break down the steps for your future clients and how to connect into the grid. Is that, is that it or.
JENIA: Yes, that, that would be accurate. Business development usually gets associated with sales.
SHORMILA: Yeah, exactly right.
JENIA: And everybody thinks, oh, you're sales. But. Which is true, which is very true. But um, you know, when you're I guess the uh, only kind of utility, major utility in the province and there's not much other choice, then you don't have to go too much outbound. Uh, it was mostly inbound requests. So, um, I guess we were lucky in a sense that we didn't have to go too hard and market ourselves. But having somebody to usher projects through, site selection, power requirements, different connection options, and what is better suited for a particular business or particular project. I find that uh, customers really appreciate that level of, of uh, customer service. So that's kind of a, uh, little bit of a difference. We were just lucky that we didn't need to go out and market ourselves too hard.
SHORMILA: But I'm glad to hear that there is a recognition of, you know, a new customer and like you said, the options analysis and how it could work to probably minimize any adverse impacts on the existing customers, but also, you know, understanding the art of the possible. Like I, you can tell that I know nothing about your business, so I find it really encouraging to see that you're, you know, depending on the asset class or the, or the type of customer, you really sort of tailor an experience to them, which is, which is amazing.
EVGENIA: I was just going to tie it to get tied back to an episode we did on business development in the infrastructure space. If you remember, Shamil, we were three of us, Riccardo, you and I were talking about it. And uh, I also realized we talk a lot about business development, infrastructure, major projects. But what then kind of pivoting and talking to people in different industry, I realized that it means different things. That similar to what Jenia is describing with the energy sector is that for us it's intelligence, it's knowing markets, the state of the market, knowing the clients, and kind of anticipation of the RFP or the procurement kind of. It's not the typical sale or sales business to business sale. It's very much of a different process. And um, that's why I also wanted to talk to Jenia about it is that is to allow people who are, you know, earlier in their careers to really see these different pathways and opportunities in a sector that may look very scary and big and misunderstood. So question for Jenia have you, you've done a number of different roles in this sector. Tell us a little bit more. What kind of uh, you know, job trajectories are there? What kind of opportunities, what sort of, you know, technical or non technical backgrounds do you think individuals need to have or don't need to talk us through kind of different career paths?
JENIA: I mean I can talk about my career path and how that kind of unfolded. I started off in a very um, entry level position. I was quite young. And you worked as a project scheduler for a number of years and that is helping with you know, doing project schedules. We made a transmission and substation, ah, projects. And at the time, you know, the natural progression would be to be an assistant project manager. You kind of needed to have pmp, uh, designation which is a professional project management certificate. So I went in and I got that. Um, I applied for assistant project manager roles. I got them. And then the trajectory from there is just you first you start as an assistant, then eventually you have your own projects and you kind of stay a project manager and your projects just get bigger. And eventually if you want to go and lead teams then that's kind of how you become, you know, a director or a vpc. Then there's another path that I wanted to take which is to work with customers, be a front facing person. Um, and I literally just, you know, applied for a role in um, industrial energy, um, management and that particular group really liked that I had technical experience. Uh, it's not a natural. It is, it is, it's actually quite rare for somebody on the project side to go and work on the customer side. But I uh, because you know, for some people might not enjoy working with customers, um, or just have that, be that front facing person. I did and then from there I just kind of started to look at different postings and different roles that people have inside and outside organization. And I started to look at their qualifications. What, what do they have. And a lot of them, um, some of them, you know, electrical engineering is, you know, gotta be an engineer of some sort or you kind of have to have an mba. Those are the kind of two paths. And I knew that I'm not gonna, you know, go back in school to be an engineer. So MBA was kind of a natural progression And I was in a time in my life personally where, um, I could. The timing allowed to take the extra time and, and the resources to do an mba. And so that's kind of, um, what I did. And from there, you know, certain doors that were closed, certain positions that I just couldn't get because an MBA was simply a requirement. The doors have opened up and it just kind of went up from there. So, um, I think, I guess the message is you can really make anything you want of yourself, um, just being. By being proactive and deciding what it is that you enjoy and where you see yourself, say, in five, 10 years, and just work towards it. Look what people. Look what people that are in those current positions, what do they do, what's their path? And, um, you know, try to emulate that in your own way.
SHORMILA: And that's really interesting, Daniel, that, that. Because I've talked to. I come from an engineering background. I have friends who use an MBA to get out of the technical realm. It's interesting that you use the MBA and then applied back to your organization. Like, what. Was there a thought process of, oh, no, I actually do want to be able to apply the skills I learned in school to the organization because I see a path here. Like, usually it's a great pivot point, uh, out of an industry or into more sort of commerce or business. Was there a thought process around actually coming back to, To BC Hydro after an mba?
JENIA: I didn't leave, so I actually did my MBA while working.
SHORMILA: Okay, excellent.
JENIA: Yes. Yeah, so I never left. I'm still here. And, uh, it was a lot of work and it was really hard. And, uh, you know, I look now like, at the time, you know, I was engaged and, you know, want to get married, have kids, and now that I, you know, have kids, like, there's just no way I would be able to do that now. Yeah, there's no way. But it was kind of like now or never, you know, So I, um, just, uh. Yeah, I, I worked and I did my MBA at the time. And the business development role actually required, uh, an MBA for the position. So I was nicely suited for it at the time.
EVGENIA: I love the idea. And I wonder if you had similar. A, um, lot of people that have done kind of MBA later in life after having, you know, number of years of experience in the, in the job or in the field, say that it's, uh, a. It's a very different experience. Rather than doing an mba right. Right after, you know, your undergrad, did you have similar thoughts on that? Was it Was it extra motivating?
JENIA: I think you really need to have work experience, professional work experience to get the most out of an MBA. You know, when you do your MBAs, you're doing, you know, case studies on businesses that are already existing and they have a certain challenge and how they overcame that challenge. And if you kind of can't relate that to the work that you've done before or currently doing, then you just, everything would, everything's hypothetical. When you have some work experience behind you, you can say, uh, okay, so you can really relate that to your role and what you're doing and really get more out of it, more learnings out of the mba. So I do think that having some work experience, you know, five to 10 years, you don't need to, you know, you don't need 20 years of work experience to get an MBA. But being, you know, maybe mid management would be helpful if I could just
SHORMILA: sort of rewind to do to young Genya and how you got into this field in the first place. Did you dream of working on a transmission line as a little girl? What was kind of that first foray into this space?
JENIA: It was completely accidental. I applied on, I think a website back then was called Indeed. Yeah, I think so. And I applied and uh, you know, it seems interesting the work. The office was downtown at the time, very close to where I live. And it was just um, I didn't really have a great concept of what transmission lines or what substations even are. But you know, once started, uh, the job and I really enjoyed working with the people. Wonderful. You know, the content can be a little dry sometimes, but I really enjoyed, you know, with projects you have a start and a finish. You know, you start with, with a plan and then you finish with something. And I really like um, the finish part and seeing what you have spent, you know, three, five years doing and having some sort of sense of accomplishment. And so I really enjoyed kind of project oriented work. And uh, you know, I've always just kept growing every couple of years I upskilled my work that moved into different positions. So there was never really uh. People ask me all the time, oh, you've been there for so long, how come you haven't left? And I'm like, well I never felt like I needed to.
SHORMILA: It didn't feel stagnant.
JENIA: That's right, yeah, it's, I've moved around quite a bit and I feel like I've had you know, three different careers and within one organization. And so it's uh, personally it's been quite rewarding.
EVGENIA: Mhm. It's really nice to hear. And I think Shormila and I kind of can relate to some of the things you're saying there. Um, I think most people just end up in their industry. Not intentionally. I think it kind of starts with the first job. And now I'm realizing how important that first serious job really is because it truly can set your whole life trajectory. So I'm making mental notes for my own kids to encourage them to have a, um. Joking. But yeah, that's um, it's an interesting kind of reflection that one career path can give you these fulfilling opportunities throughout, you know, your life. Um, as you progress. I'm thinking a little bit you said that, you know, opportunities how I think it relates also to how big the energy sector is and how much it has grown over the last decade, two decades, um, it's definitely not slowing down. There was a lot of changes. We hear about it, you know, with, with AI and data centers and all the new demands that now energy has. I'm wondering kind of what are you seeing from your worldview of where you are, kind of what considerations uh, should we have for the energy sector? What do we not understand? And I'm thinking more as a consumer like what do general public maybe doesn't understand about the energy sector these days?
JENIA: First and foremost, I think electricity and power demands are becoming uh, more and more fundamental to project and site selection. Historically you see things around transportation where you need rail access or port access, you want to be close to skilled labor. And now you're seeing energy is coming in the, in those forefront discussions as well. Certain industries have, you know, sprung up in the last, let's say 10 years entirely like data centers. And their first question now is okay, well where's power? You know, we, that's kind of the first stop in the site selection process. And you know, as demand grows for energy, uh, like advanced manufacturing, for example, robotics, power also is becoming critical conversation, uh, and critical insight selection. So we're fundamentally changing the way we think about power because the power needs I think are increasing as such that it's a must have uh, now at this point. And it can, I think the biggest misconception in I guess the energy sector is a lot of times folks think well there's a pole, there's some wires, that means I can have abundant energy and infinite amounts and you know, we're ready to go. And it's just not how it works. Every project has, you know, certain requirements, um, there could be, you know, upgrades that are needed. Um, depending on what your energy demand is, a distribution line is not going to do you any good if you're a transmission level customer. And so I think having, coming uh, to uh, utility early, probably first stop, one of the first stops is quite important because if your energy requirements are high and likely uh, result in a number of upgrades, then that just takes time. Um, it takes time to plan, um, time to construct and upgrade the existing system. So I think those are kind of the two biggest misconceptions that people have with respect to power.
SHORMILA: Yeah, I've definitely felt the change. Any of how you used to take it for granted that there would be enough capacity in the grid kind of almost 15 years ago. And like you said now it's one of the first, if not the first question is how would we actually get sufficient energy to run whatever it is. Right. Even the construction of a future transportation system. Like do we have enough? Um, so I completely agree with you. I've seen that sort of firsthand. That being, you know, really moving up on the, on the checklist, on the risk register. On the risk. I was going to say the risk register. Let's not get too technical here.
EVGENIA: But yeah, totally, I do. Um, actually as we talk about it, I don't think I've dealt with, you know, energy modeling. I'm referring back to my personal experience energy modeling for transportation systems and it's usually for the O and M M phase. Tramila, you probably have a little bit more experience for the construction phase. Maybe between the two of you. Explain to me how does that work? Who goes to who? Is it the owner of the project? Is it uh, the contractor? Like when they have a construction site and they need power for construction and then for perhaps maintenance. How does that work?
SHORMILA: From my experience, yeah, it's usually it's between the contractor and the owner, but it's usually the onus is on the contractor depending on the size. But if it, I think it's. If it, if it gets to be kind of too big then. And at least what I've seen is the owner usually gets involved too to help support and to Jenya's point is if there needs to be preparatory work either to increase the capacity or to sort of upsize or create sort of connection lines into the site which weren't there before, like that's usually the owner is doing that even before the procurement hits. Like they're having those conversations. At least that's what I've seen in my experience. I don't know if it's been the same for you Jenia
JENIA: On large industrial side, it's usually the project owners, um, because it kind of depends what kind of a customer you are. For example, if you're a mining customer and you're locked in where your mine is, then you can contract the power out to your contractor. If you're a uh, data center for example, and the power is the kind of the first stop, usually the project owners um, come to you because they can look into different sections right before engaging a contractor. So if you're kind of landlocked some your mind, then you're not going anywhere. You just, you're we're going to hire somebody who's going to bring you that connection, right? You're say a data center customer. You can choose where you locate, whether you're, you know, you can change your provinces, you can change your countries and whatnot. So it just kind of depends on the industry that you're in. From my experience, the other kind of,
SHORMILA: I'll say trend or issue that I'd love to get your thoughts on is resiliency. Kind of clarity, climate resiliency. We were before we hit record, we're talking about the unfortunate wildfires in British Columbia a couple of weeks ago. I assume that conversation now is sort of top of mind. From your perspective, how has that conversation changed over the last number of years?
JENIA: I think it's just getting more front and center during these summer months. I think 10 years ago, I don't remember, but I don't think we were experiencing as much devastation due to wildfires as we are now. And um, as now we're, you know, I think this is fourth or fifth season of serious wildfire damage. We're now shifting prioritizing wildfire, uh, protection more than ever before. Um, because we've seen what is, you know, what's trending and the risk of wildfires is, you know, trending higher year over year. So I would say that's just um, becoming more and more important and more and more prioritized.
EVGENIA: And how about AI? We asked this question also across different sectors. Has AI impacted the way energy sector works and operates?
JENIA: Like in terms of AI data centers or AI within those organization?
EVGENIA: I think both like in terms of how projects are delivered or planned for executed. And um, I'm guessing part of it is also the data centers and the need but that's kind of more of the you know, project or industry.
JENIA: I mean I, there's a lot of companies that offer AI solutions. For example, uh, there's a company called Pearl street and they um, offer, offer solutions for uh, studies, for interconnection studies for you know, to utilities. There is other companies that uh, offer different solutions that are AI focused and geared um, towards the utility sector. I do see some utilities adopting it. Some utilities are not. I think it's a little early days or AI in the utility sector but I think it will improve and I think that there will be more of it um, happening in the sector with time. As it gets better, you know, the models themselves get more refined as they get more experience working with utilities. So I do see that there will be a role for AI um in everyone really uh, in our daily lives. There is some uh, that are gaining traction now like I mentioned Pearl street. But um, I do think that there will be more of that in the future.
EVGENIA: And in terms of broader innovation trends or maybe changes that you may have noticed over the last decade in this sector, anything jumps out to you in terms of how things are done, process based or technology or anything like that?
JENIA: Not really to be honest. I mean we're kind of, you know there's certain standards of ways of doing things and they're followed. It's yeah regulated and you know, follow closely followed. So there's some utilities out east in Canada that are doing innovative work. Um, for example St. John's um, energy, I think they're called St. John energy. They're uh, deploying Kraken, which is a firm uh based out of the UK and they have some really new AI also AI based, um, software. So certain utilities I think are doing innovative stuff. Certain utilities are sticking with you know, their programs and protocols and ways of doing things. So it's a Brahmin bit of a mix.
EVGENIA: We were interviewing just yes somebody yesterday and we kind of drew a parallel. So she's someone very senior who's been in the transit and transportation major project space for all of her life. And now she's recently working on one of the major transmission line projects uh on the west coast. And we were talking about um, kind of different procurement models and contracts and how we maybe we're not truly realizing but how we can learn from um, across industries. I think public uh, infrastructure or transportation. Major transportation projects in Canada. They've evolved contractually over the last 15 years in terms of the contract formats, uh, delivery models. And our conversation was around that, how certain elements of that can be translated or transferred to the energy project that she's working on. Do you see any kind of similarities where maybe other sectors or where you're borrowing certain Ideas, um, in any kind of direction, be it procurement or models or risk, uh, allocation. Has there been any changes on that front for you?
JENIA: Nope.
EVGENIA: No. Pretty regulated and pretty standardized.
JENIA: We're very. Yeah, uh, there is, you know, there's a standard protocol of, um, you know, how we do things, and we kind of follow that quite strictly.
EVGENIA: Very interesting. It's probably easy in some way and harden many other ways if you're trying to innovate. But then I guess it depends with what are you competing against. And in terms of energy, in British Columbia, you're kind of with one entity. So it's not like you're going to be reassuming different versions of agreements, uh, or partners, partnerships. Well, why don't we pivot a little bit and maybe talk about something else here? I happen to know that three of us are millennium working moms. We're kind of in the same, I think, you know, age bracket and kids bracket. Um, I know that three of us have multiple kids and we both. All three of us, you know, have careers. Jenia tell us, how has this transition been for you on a personal level? You talked to us about your interesting career and how much you've enjoyed growing. How's the transition to a working mom title been for you?
JENIA: Difficult, I guess, to summarize. It's difficult because, you know, when you're a mom, you're a mom 247 with no breaks. There's no Monday to Friday in motherhood. So when you, you know, I, I always laugh after my job. I go to my real job, which is my job of being a mother. Uh, it doesn't stop. And it, it actually now given me interesting perspective where negotiating with toddlers is a lot harder than negotiating with. With adults. So whenever, whenever I think, oh, this is difficult, or, you know, I don't know how I'm going to get through this. I just go back and I think this is way easier than trying to negotiate dinner with my children. And so it kind of gave a bit of a, uh, I guess relief in a sense. Like, well, if I can negotiate with my kids, then I can do anything. I'm a superwoman. So it gave me, I guess, an interesting perspective on my abilities of being able to, you know, do the job. Because if you can be a mother, then you can be anything in the world, really.
SHORMILA: Yeah, I love that. And do they have a grasp of what you do or, like, how do they explain it? Is there a way that they.
JENIA: When we drive by and I show them transmission lines, I tell them, this is where mommy works. And so now whenever they see a, uh, transmission line, they're like, oh, this is mommy's job. So that's their grasp right now. Or when I turn the light. Light on, if we turn the lights on, they, they understand the concept of electricity. And I try to kind of tell them and, you know, very simple ways of what electricity means and, you know, what that means in terms of a transmission line and brings the power from here over to our house when you turn the light switch on. So baby steps.
SHORMILA: But that's so amazing because again, like, as a consumer, you. You tend to obviously take it for granted. And we talk about this a lot, um, on other episodes too, of, you know, engineering generally is a. Somebody had called it like a hidden kind of art in the sense that a lot, you just assume that your water will be clean and the road will be paved in a way and sloped in a way that you're not going to get into an accident. You know, there's just a lot of hidden sort of assumptions, um, that societally we've. We've, you know, all the checks and balances are in place. But to be able to sort of break that down for a child almost makes it like a lot of people are putting in a lot of their time and blood, sweat and tears to make that every time you flick a switch, the light will come on, you know, as sort of rudimentary as it sounds. But it's really like people are, uh, building their whole careers, you included, into making sure that it all works.
JENIA: Yes, that's right. And I think people, you know, take it for granted. And it's a very normal. I did too. It's a very normal, you know, thing to not think about of will my, you know, power turn on today or not? So it's very normal not to really think about it and take it for granted. And then as, uh, you get into, say, major projects, maybe not on the transportation side, but in industries where power requirements are one of the major requirements, requirements for your operations, then you kind of start to get depreciation for, okay, this is what it takes to deliver a certain amount of power to my site. And then they kind of start getting, uh, I guess, better appreciation for the utility sector.
EVGENIA: I actually think, um, although, you know, specifically the three of us, we're not really on the construction site and we're not physically building, you know, projects telling our kids about what we do in the industries we're in really kind of, they're small, right? So they look at things and they're like, oh, mama built that. Or like they literally don't really exactly. They don't yet understand that, okay, we're actually sitting behind our computers and on the phones most of the time. But I think it's, at least with my kids, it really sparks their curiosity and interest about how things are made. And I know that the two of you have girls too. It really opens the door to not just like the idea of engineering or idea of, you know, it gives them a very specific example that, okay, mom was part of this project. And then as they get older, they get to learn what mom actually did as part of that project. So just by being, you know, examples of doing something within an industry that is so complex, you're opening that door to your kids to kind of pursue different ideas. And that kind of leads me to the question around, you know, male dominated industry. Is this a male dominated industry for you as well? Jenia energy sector? Do you see this imbalance that we often see, um, which is sometimes growing closer? Like that gap sometimes shifts, but then it kind of falls back again and it feels like we're the only women here. But, um, what has been your experience?
JENIA: I think historically the utility sector sector has been a traditionally male dominated industry. But I have seen that change in the last, what, 15 years, I guess, or 17 years that I've been at BC Hydro. When I, uh, look at now my team leads a female, RVP's a female, and now our CEOs a female. So it really has changed, I think in the last 20 years. There are certain groups, um, like for example, engineering, electrical engineering, where it is, you know, mostly male dominated. But I've seen, uh, quite a shift in, in the last, say, 10 to 15 years, especially in the leadership sector. Like in the leadership level.
SHORMILA: Uh-huh.
EVGENIA: Do you think that's important?
JENIA: I don't know. I never really, I never really think too much about, you know, oh, I'm a female and you know, somebody else is male or, you know, who's in which position. I. And I think that kind of goes back to my childhood. When I was growing up, I was raised by a single mother. My mother worked really hard. She was in the business world and she was my window into the art of the possible. And when I was growing up, I always thought, well, yes, you can be successful in the business world and you can be a woman, because, you know, look at my mom. And so when I myself ventured into the, you know, working world, I never really gave it too much thought. I never. Yes, sometimes it's a little uncomfortable when you're the only woman in the meeting room of 20 men. I mean. Okay. But I don't, I just, it never, I was blissfully, intentionally unaware and you know, never thought of it as any kind of disadvantage of any sort. So I think if you just, you know, go through, you know, your life focusing on the work rather than on, you know, who's what, then I think that's really a better mindset to have.
EVGENIA: Absolutely. That's such a powerful way of looking at things. I would agree. And something that I personally struggle with in terms of opinion. Sharma I think we kind of touched on but we didn't really uncover it. And maybe we can do a whole episode on that. This whole idea of, you know, we talk a lot about women in technical, uh, male dominated fields. We talk about some of the hardships that we can now talk about more openly in terms of balancing careers, in terms of, you know, having young families. Something that I think just uh, again traditionally hasn't been discussed. It's been done. Done is just we just kind of, kind of like your mom, Jenia.
JENIA: Yeah.
EVGENIA: Uh, she just went on with her life, did her best, achieved things and she didn't use that as um, a you know, as an excuse to say, oh, I couldn't do it because I was the woman and I was, you know. I'm wondering, is there something in the air with the society where we now kind of looking at the stats that show there is a gap? There are, you know, it's harder for women to get to a certain leadership level which are, you know, numbers they show. But is there something else in the air in terms of how we interpret that and how we justify it? Like are we making excuses now or we're still not making, you know, creating enough artificial opportunities for women to give them that boost at a broader scale. Like I'm trying to understand, like which side is, I don't know, healthier, better in terms of just closing your eyes and doing things or talking about the problem and then trying to fix it?
JENIA: Well, I think depends what you perceive the problem to be. You know, you got to look in the data and I'm not sure which data you're referencing, but I'm assuming that the number of females kind of drop off
EVGENIA: certain management leadership roles. Yes.
JENIA: But you know, it could be that uh, for example, if a lot of women decide to, that they only want to work part time, ah after they have a family and there's absolutely nothing, you know, some women quit their jobs altogether to stay at home and be with their kids. And there's nothing wrong with that. Um, that's just certain choices that, you know, certain people make. And it can happen vice versa too. I mean, I've seen men quit to be stay at home dads too. So I think it's just a matter of, you know, personal choice and what you decide is important for your family and your life. My advice is always just focus on the work. Focus on the work. Do good, better yourself through education. Build strong relationships, strong networks, you know, and the opportunities will come along. If you can articulate, uh, the value that you bring to the table with clarity and conviction. The right people will see you and the right people will want you on their team regardless whether you're, you know, man or woman, regardless. They will want you on their project, on their team, working for them, whatnot. And that's what you really need to focus on. And the folks that don't see it are not the folks that should be working with anyway. So if you're a woman and you're come at a point where, okay, well, I'm not getting the growth that I want of not winning the opportunities that I'm applying for, then maybe you should leave that company and go work for someone who will see the value in you and what you bring to the table.
SHORMILA: Maybe before. I think we're close to time, but Jenia I would love to also get your sense. I think I saw on LinkedIn that you've been a guest lecturer before. What's your relationship to academia? How did that come about? What was your experience doing that? I'd just love to hear a little bit.
JENIA: Yeah, we were involved in BCIT school of um, environment and construction. And occasionally we would come in and do a presentation on, you know, um, infrastructure, like in terms of transmission lines and, you know, all the steps that it takes to build infrastructure, um, and how it relates to, you know, environment and whatnot. So it was, I believe the professor at the time was a close friend with one of my managers and he kept on inviting us to do a presentation on, you know, BC Hydro. And you know, what, um, our impact is on, you know, infrastructure. So that's kind of how that came about. It was more of a networking opportunity. I haven't done it since.
SHORMILA: No, but still it was more that just to, you know, again like, similar to, I think what we've just experienced in our conversation with you, this ability to just sort of show the art of the possible. Back to what, what you said about your mom. I think like being able to See what, what it takes to, to build a transmission line, what capabilities you need from. From people. Like, I'm sure it opened a lot of eyes for, for people, for again, what's traditionally seems like a, uh, you know, a very regulated job, but there's so many career paths, you know, and, and which is, which is great to hear. So I, you know, I was just kind of curious because I, I think again, back to transferable skills. Like, it would be great if we all sort of took it upon ourselves to give back to academia, to students. You know, to your point of genii of like, how do we get more diversity? I, I feel like it's. And I, I am guilty of this too, but I've been thinking recently about being a little bit more proactive in that. In that space. Space, you know. Um, so no, that, that's really, uh, really interesting to see that, that you were able to, to provide that to people. I'm sure it captured a lot of people's attention.
EVGENIA: Well, uh, it's a shameless plug right now. But I, um, am recently, uh, became part of the Women in Transportation, uh, network in Vancouver. And we would definitely welcome opportunities like that to come and talk to, you know, younger professionals about different ways, you know, different career paths, different experiences. I think that's such a wonderful way. I personally, and why I, I'm so passionate about it. I wish I knew what are these options. I figured it out as I, as I kind of went about my career. I just wish there was, uh, a little bit of a map. I know there's no map, but just kind of knowing in broad, broader strokes that, okay, you can go down this path and this would happen. And if you really wanted to go down that path, no, go get that MBA faster or don't bother with the mba if you want to go, you know, down the other route. So I think there's something to that and I hope that conversations like this, you know, spark interest and curiosity around sectors that sometimes are misunderstood. Maybe. Last question. Um, we're almost at time here. Jenia What do you know about yourself now that you wish you had understood earlier in your career?
JENIA: That's a good one. I think now I understand and know that I really enjoy working with people. I don't think I really understood that before and I don't think I really understood that. That is actually the part that I do that I enjoy. You know, it took me a while from, you know, being in project environment to then, uh, being. Being in people environment to really understand, oh, this is, this is where I belong. You know, you're kind of. I went through, you know, earlier in my career. I, you know, was just good at what I did and you know, always uh, upskilled myself. Always, um, try to focus on, you know, the work and doing good work. And then at some point I think it was, you know, when I had that independent, uh, power producer, producer project, I really realized, oh gee, you know, I really enjoy working with people, you know, and even in, even in hard times and hard conversations, I really enjoy trying to find common ground, trying to find a solution kind of. I think I've just realized that I'm a people person really and that kind of helps me navigate of um, where I want to be, uh, within the organization and know, within the sector in general. If you're, you know, focusing on, you know, more technical side, chances are you're, you're not going to be involved with too many people or working with too many, you know, client based relationships. But I, I've kind of figured that out and I've been, you know, pursuing relentlessly opportunities that get me in front of people and working with people from, you know, different organizations and different walks of life and whatnot.
EVGENIA: Yeah, that's wonderful. That's such an important realization, really knowing what you love about your job and then doing more of that, uh, rather than, you know, just going about uh, life.
JENIA: So um, I think it goes back to also me commenting about, you know, knowing your value and what sets you apart. Really know when you think about, say for that next level, if that's where you want to go, you really got to understand what is going to set you apart from the rest of the people. And you know, there will, something will come along where your particular passion and your skill set and what sets you apart will be what is missing in, you know, in the, in the current team or in the organization. And you will be, and that will be the reason why they went with you and not somebody else. So you really got to figure that out. Um, sometimes it takes a long time to figure that out. You know, what sets me apart, I don't know. But uh, as you go along through your career, hopefully you'll have that aha moment and I think that will be, you know, your key to success.
EVGENIA: Wonderful. That's great. Yeah. Thank you very much, Jenia for joining us. This was a really, really interesting conversation. I learned uh, a little bit about the sector that I did not know a lot about
SHORMILA: and yeah, thanks for the uh, Electricity for Dummies for at the beginning.
JENIA: Very calm.
EVGENIA: That was really. But most importantly, I truly enjoyed also hearing about your personal story in this in the Space and the Journey, and your outlook on career progression and that sometimes sticking with one one employer is not the worst career projection. It can actually, um, be very meaningful and rewarding. Thank you again for coming.
JENIA: Thanks for having me. It was very nice to meet you guys.
SHORMILA: That's it for this episode of Navigating Major Programs. If you enjoyed the conversation, please follow the show and consider leaving a review. To continue elevating the conversation, join us on the navigating major programs LinkedIn page. I'm Shormila Chatterjee alongside Riccardo Cosentino and Evgenia Jelena. Thank you for listening.